Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

Comments on Formalizing proof of existence of roots of functional equation

Parent

Formalizing proof of existence of roots of functional equation

+4
−0

Hey, codidact!

I've been solving for solutions to $f^n(x)=x$ where $f(x) = 4x(1-x)$ (the r=4 case of the logistic map, yes) and $f^n(x) = f(f^{n-1}(x))$ is defined recursively. Domain and range are both $[0,1]$.

I think I'm almost there - just need some logic to clear the (apparently) last hurdle.

Since $f^n(x)$ can arise from two different values of $f^{n-1}(x)$ (symmetrical about 0.5) I began to build a sort of reverse tree where I go backwards from $f^n(x)$ to $2^n$ possible values of $x$. This implies that for any $f^n(x) = k, 0 \lt k \lt 1$ there are $2^n$ distinct $x$ available to iterate on. (The $f^n(x) = 1, 0$ cases have some number of repeated roots, but that does not matter, as I am solving for equality to $x$, and 0 is a solution and I leave it at that)

I have this inkling of an idea: since there are infinite such $k$ I should be easily able to find $2^n$ values of $k$ such that $k$ is a part of ${\{x:f^n(x)=x}\}$. But this sort of reasoning seems highly inaccurate to me.

Is this even an acceptable conjecture? Is there any way I can formalize the proof along these lines?

I'd appreciate help with tags.

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

1 comment thread

Attempted restatement of the problem (2 comments)
Post
+4
−0

All real roots are in $[0, 1)$.

If $x \le 0$ then $f(x) \le x$ with equality only at $x = 0$. By induction, for all $n \in \mathbb{N}$ and $x \le 0$ we have $f^n(x) \le x$ with equality only at $x = 0$.

If $x \ge 1$ then $f(x) \le 0$, so for all $n \in \mathbb{N}$ we have $f^n(x) \le 0 < x$.

Therefore by elimination all real roots of $f^n(x) - x$ are in the interval $[0, 1)$.

There are $2^n$ real roots for $n \ge 1$

Let $g_-(x) = \frac{1 - \sqrt{1 - x}}{2}$ and $g_+(x) = \frac{1 + \sqrt{1 - x}}{2}$. $g_-$ is a continuous bijection from $[0,1]$ to $[0, \tfrac12]$ and $g_+$ is a continuous bijection from $[0,1]$ to $[\tfrac12, 1]$. Both of them satisfy $f(g(x)) = x$.

Consider a function $h$ constructed by composing some sequence of length $n \ge 1$ where each element of the sequence is $g_-$ or $g_+$. Then $f^n(h(x)) = x$. Moreover, $h$ is a continuous bijection from $[0,1]$ to some closed interval $I_h \subset [0,1]$ which depends on the sequence used to construct it. $h(0) \ge 0$ and $h(1) \le 1$, so by Bolzano's theorem there is a fixpoint $x_h$ for which $h(x_h) = x_h$. Therefore $f^n(h(x_h)) = f^n(x_h)$, whence $f^n(x_h) = x_h$.

Finally, we note that each choice of sequence gives a different interval for the domain of $h$, and therefore for the corresponding fixpoint $x_h$. The intervals aren't quite disjoint: to complete the proof it's necessary to deal with the special case $g_-(1) = g_+(1)$, but since we've already noted that $1$ isn't a root I will hand-wave that away.

There are $2^n$ choices of sequences, so at least $2^n$ real roots in $[0, 1)$; but since $f^n(x) - x$ is a polynomial of degree $2^n$ it cannot have more than $2^n$ roots.

The key point which I think you were missing is the relevance of continuity.


To be precise, we need to case split on equality vs inequality and apply Bolzano's theorem in the case with no equality.

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

1 comment thread

Unique intervals (2 comments)
Unique intervals
zayn‭ wrote 6 months ago

Thanks a lot for the answer, sorry for the late response. I'm having a little difficulty reasoning why the intervals of domains of $h(x)$ should be unique for each sequence. Could you please explain, briefly, your reasoning for the same?

Peter Taylor‭ wrote 6 months ago

When $n=1$ the two options for $h$ are $g_-$ and $g_+$, whose domains intersect only at $[\frac12,\frac12]$. If all of the domains at level $n$ intersect only at irrelevant points then at $n+1$ each $h_n$ becomes $h_n(g_-(x))$ and $h_n(g_+(x))$, which splits the domain of $h_n$ into two parts which overlap only at a point.