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Comments on What is the probability that the convex hull of $n$ randomly distributed points has $l$ of the points on its boundary?

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What is the probability that the convex hull of $n$ randomly distributed points has $l$ of the points on its boundary?

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Consider a square in which $n$ points are uniformly randomly distributed. Now consider the convex hull of these points. The "length" of the convex hull is defined as the number of points in the perimeter of the convex hull i.e. $n \\; -$ the number of points strictly contained by the convex hull.

I conjecture that the probability that the convex hull has "length" $l$ is the same for all $3 \le l \le n$ as the points are randomly arranged in the grid. However, I’m unable to come up with a proof for this claim.

Is my conjecture correct, and if not, what is the correct probability distribution?

Note that the points do not lie on any grid - there are infinite possibilities for the arrangement of points and (almost surely) there will be no identical points.

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2 comment threads

Would "population" be easier to understand than "length"? (1 comment)
Are two points allowed to be identical? Otherwise the case of four points on a 2×2 grid is an obvious... (9 comments)
Are two points allowed to be identical? Otherwise the case of four points on a 2×2 grid is an obvious...
celtschk‭ wrote about 2 years ago

Are two points allowed to be identical? Otherwise the case of four points on a 2×2 grid is an obvious counterexample, as the probability of $l=3$ is 0, and of $l=4$ is 1.

celtschk‭ wrote about 2 years ago

Actually thinking about it, it's a counterexample in the other case, too, as there are more configurations with two points identical than all points different.

celtschk‭ wrote about 2 years ago

Err, actually even in the case of identical points we have $l=4$ for all configurations, as the identical points still need to be counted separately. But still a counterexample.

siric‭ wrote about 2 years ago

I think my explanation was poor. The points do not have to be in a lattice grid; they can be arranged anywhere in the box - so there are infinite arrangements.

celtschk‭ wrote about 2 years ago

So what is the point of the grid in the first place?

tommi‭ wrote about 2 years ago

Could you define more formally in the question how the points are distributed? A continuous distribution within a fixed square would presumably lead to probability zero for any given length, as there would be uncountably with possible lengths. (This is not a proper argument, just a guess.)

siric‭ wrote about 2 years ago

I think grid is the wrong word. I meant box or square. It’s a continuous distribution so the points can be anywhere in the square (no identical points). I am concerned about the probability distribution of lengths. So, if the points are randomly distributed an arbitrarily large number of times (say, 1 billion), what proportion would have a convex hull of length 3, what proportion would have a convex hull of length 4, etc. My conjecture is that the probability distribution is uniform, but I can’t prove it.

celtschk‭ wrote about 2 years ago

I see, so you should simply remove the word "grid" to make your question vastly more understandable. You have a square with randomly distributed points in it. No grid that is of any relevance.

celtschk‭ wrote about 2 years ago

tommi‭ Well, the “length” is defined in the title as the number of the points that come to lie on the perimeter of the convex hull. It's not what conventionally would be called “length” (yes, it's another case of confusing wording, but in this case the exact intended definition is contained in the question).